This is Eurovision 2023 calling... | The Leader Podcast

ES Audio From the Evening Standard in London, I'm Rachelle Travers and this is The Leader. Eurovision 2023. Are you ready? For the first time in 25 years, the competition is back on UK soil, as we play hosts for last year's winner, Ukraine. The party atmosphere is already well underway in Liverpool, who beat out a number of other cities hoping to be the stage for the big event. Last time, Sam Ryder did the UK proud with his song, Spaceman. But this year is the turn of Mae Muller. We'll be hoping to win the competition, or at least a respectable finish, with her entry, I wrote a song.

Here with me to discuss all things Eurovision and everything you need to know about the competition this year are… I'm Professor Helen Julie Miners, Head of School of Arts at York St John University. I do various things. I'm a trumpeter, I'm a massive Eurovision fan. I'm basically spent my entire life doing music related things. I'm Dr Paul Jordan, I'm an expert in Eurovision. I wrote my PhD on the politics behind the contest, a lifelong Eurovision fan as well, and I've been going to the contest since the year 2000. So the UK has won five times, but this is actually our ninth year of hosting, because in previous years we stepped in when other countries either couldn't or would choose not to do it.

So yeah, it's not unusual that we're picking up the reins for another country. I think it's really good we're doing that. It shows how collaborative it is. You know, Eurovision is meant to be bringing everyone together and it's exactly what it's about. Absolutely. And I think, I mean, this is the first time since 1980 that the previous year's winner hasn't hosted, but these are really unprecedented circumstances. And I think it's entirely in keeping with the support that the world has given to Ukraine, especially the UK.

I think it's only right that we're picking up the reins and Sam Ryder, the UK entry last year, said it's Ukraine's party, but we're having it at our house this year. And I think that's a really nice way of looking at it. What do we know so far about the Eurovision final itself? There's going to be a Ukrainian flavour to the proceedings this year. It's a co-production between the BBC and the Ukrainian broadcaster. So there's going to be definitely a reflection of Ukraine within the broadcast. Kalusha Orchestra are going to perform there, the Ukraine's winners from last year, but we're also going to see the return of Sonja to the Eurovision stage. She's Liverpool's finest Eurovision singer.

She came second 30 years ago in 1993 and she's returning to Eurovision. So I think for her, that'll be a really special moment. But there's also going to be Sam Ryder. The presenters this year, Graeme Norton is doing what Terry Wogan did back in 98. He's done a bit of commentary. Then going to be running on stage to do some presenting. Got Hannah Waddingham as well.

We've got lots of different people doing lots of different things. Claire Sweeney's doing the commentary for Radio, I believe, or the Red Button commentary. So if you want a kind of scouts version of Eurovision commentary, she's your girl. So I think there's something for everyone this year. I love the fact Graeme Norton's going to be running on the stage. It is absolutely the highlight piece of news for me. Plus the fact Sam Ryder and Kalusha Orchestra being back because they're just so amazing.

Yeah, I think it's great. And I think it's taken Graeme a few years, I think, to make it his own. I think in the first few years, in 2009 when he started, it was a little bit like he was not sure of the way in which he was going to go. It was a little bit like Terry Wogan. And actually now he's going to made it his own. And he's got that right. Kind of, I think tongue in cheek kind of element to it, but also does give it the respect that I think it deserves as well.

And I think his commentary last year was brilliant. And he could tell that they were genuinely elated and emotional at the fact that Sam Ryder was doing so well. And I like the fact that he wasn't too down and Ukraine winning. You know, Ukraine did have a good song. It wasn't a surprise that they won. But I don't think it's politics. I think it was more showing of solidarity.

Do you think that Eurovision is getting more credibility in the UK? It used to be that a lot of people weren't really interested in the competition and would sort of roll their eyes if you said you were into it. I think credibility is growing for it. I think because it's such a massive dramatic theatrical production with all the costumes and the designs, the wonderful Eurovision cheese, plus the quality music, plus the lyrics, the whole statement that some of the songs are making about wellbeing, mental health, we've got issues of representation coming out. It's really meaningful for current generations, the next generation and not just people like me who got into Eurovision through 1993 and Sonya who's going to be back. That was the first one I remember. So yeah, I think it's growing in credibility because of that. And I think people like yourself, Rochelle, doing these interviews and conversations and shining a light on why it's so important really help.

Yeah, I completely agree with what Helen just said there. And I think 1999 through was also the first year that I properly remember. It's the one that I was allowed to watch all the way through. But yeah, now I think it certainly has improved over the years. Credibility, I think, is growing. And interestingly, there is a younger audience, particularly following on social media, particularly TikTok. So it's interesting that Sam Ryder did so well last year, having that big following too.

And it's interesting that a lot of the critics who go for Eurovision, they really don't like it. They criticise it every year. But they're also the people who haven't necessarily watched it for the past, you know, five to 10 years. So it has changed and it has evolved. And yes, you get the odd silly song. But in the main, I think a lot of the music is reflective of contemporary music. And I think that's to be welcomed.

Let's go to the ads. Stay there to hear our rundown of the favourites of this year's competition, as well as predictions for how well the UK entry will do. Welcome back. Still with me are my Eurovision experts and superfans, Dr Paul Jordan, aka Dr Eurovision, and Professor Helen Julia Miners, head of the School of Art at York St John University. Right, onto the juice bit now, the music itself for 2023. Who are the favourites of this year's competition and some of your personal favourites? Sweden's showing is a really hot favour on a lot of the social media platforms, websites, certainly for the bookies. I just absolutely love the song.

And you know, it's one of those where you sing and carry on, it's called tattoo, the singer, Laryne, won in 2012 before. But I think there's something about that electrifying pop and the conversation of representation plus the powerful voice that I just, I've listened to it quite a lot. There's some I put on repeat and some you just listen to once and then you might go back to, but you might not. And this one I have listened to quite a few times, I can see it's really strong. I would hope Ukraine would be a favourite again. I think the song's excellent, actually. I think the music video is great.

It's really clear. If you go by the criteria and you've got a bit of a geek when it comes to criteria, absolutely meets everything that's expected. There isn't that standout cheesy moment for me that's a bit different, that could be on the top list. But I think Finland's probably up there. I know there's some conversations with different papers saying how important it is to be supporting Scandinavian countries for different political and United Front reasons or whatever you want to call it. But yeah, I'm really keen that Ukraine does really well, but I do love the Swedish song. I think, yeah, Sweden's going to be an interesting one to watch.

And I don't know if it's the expectation because she's previously won or because of the song itself. I think the song is strong. I think the performance is striking. And that's what you need with Eurovision. You need the visuals as well. And you need something which is unusual and stands out. That's why Israel won.

That's why Portugal won. Netherlands. So I think definitely it ticks all those boxes. I think Finland is going to be the one that gets a public vote, though. I think that's going to capture the imagination. It's very striking. It's quite catchy.

And there's nothing else like it. And that's the thing. You need something that's really unusual. If we go for something classy, though, I think France is a very classy entry. I think it's been around for a while. I think it's been around for a while. I think it's been around for a while.

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Let's hope that we're on the start of that journey. I think we're definitely on the start of that journey. I think though, when you think about the class acts that you said or something that could be considered traditional, bringing traditional folk music in, so performance Spain has achieved that really well with the flamenco rhythms and the movements and then fusing it with all the other things that are happening is really rich vocally as well. There's lots to explore, isn't it? It's like a sweet shop of different styles coming together. And languages too. You know, a lot of countries now sing in, they don't always choose English, you know, 10 years ago, most countries were, but now we're seeing a return to languages. We saw that Spain last year could do well, Portugal won in 2017 in Portuguese, so it doesn't always follow the rule you have to sing an English language pop song and that's refreshing I think.

How much does it matter about the on the day performance? Anola Reen, Sweden's entry with her song Tattoo, it's already a massive hit across Europe. How much is it down to the performance during the actual competition as opposed to the promotion and how it's done in the run up to it? It's a bit of a mixture to be honest. I think certainly having that rebelling and having that kind of platform and that coverage doesn't hurt. I think it absolutely can help you, but it also does come down to the moment on the night. I mean, we've had big favourites before Russia 2016. He was their biggest pop star, Sergey Lazarev. He didn't win, even they won the public vote.

I think Italy 2017, that was a massive favour at Francesco Gabani with the dancing gorilla. You know, these were songs which were everyone was saying, there's nothing else going to beat them. They are the winners and they didn't win on the night and Italy didn't even come close. So I think it is that mixture of the build up as well as the performance and sometimes the build up can put unrealistic expectations on the artist. I agree with you, Paul. If the build up's put unrealistic expectations, how the visuals play out, how the dance moves and how the vocals live play out, it can completely destroy or make the performance. What is the official criteria that songs have to meet for Eurovision? Main vocals have to be live.

You're allowed pre-recorded backing vocals, but you're also not allowed more than six people on stage. So I think part of the reason why they introduced that backing rule was to allow more dancers. It was actually brought in during lockdown or during Eurovision 2021 to limit the number of people on stage and delegations. But I think if you've got five backing dancers, that then limits you in terms of your capacity to have backing singers. People tend not to be able to sing and dance well at the same time. So I think it was mainly to produce better performances for the artist, really. I want to focus a bit more on Maymuller now with her entry.

I wrote a song. What do we think of the actual song and how well do you think it'll do? I think the lyrics are really clear. I think it's really rhythmic and powerful. The music video is really strong. So the thing for me that will make or break this is how that music videos then perform live because the visual aspects of the video adds to the narrative, just very gestural, really, really engaging with it. But I think just because we're hosting and it's in the UK and as you say, the Ukrainian parties at our house, I do wonder whether that will benefit the voting as well. But Maymuller's got a TikTok fan base, a wide fan base already.

So I think that's going to help. I generally think it's a good song. I agree with what Paul said earlier. It's a really strong song. The live performance of that will make or break how well it does for me. I don't know about you Paul, what do you think? I agree with you, Helen. I think it's that trying to get that mixture of the jury and the public to like you and to vote for you.

And I think the jury is if she's not good vocally, they will not go for it. Similarly, it's about recreating that music video. Russia did well in 2016. In terms of the song, I think it's really empowering. I think it's a really strong message. It's very much about solidarity, empowerment, female empowerment, it's catchy. And yeah, I think it's something to be proud of.

I just hope that it gets rewarded. Hoping for top 15, top 10, maybe even top five. But the problem is at this stage, I've heard the song so many times, I lose sense of all sorts of perspective, really. So I think I'm the same. I started thinking top 10 when I first heard it, but when you listen to everything so much, you just it becomes so second nature to hear it. Your brain's already got the end motif. I do like the empowering words to it, but it also makes me think of some of the empowering words in other songs.

So Switzerland says we can make a change as they're going through. There's lots of that. This is the time to make a change. Yes, we've got a climate crisis. Yes, we've got a war. Let's do something about it. Let's not just sit and observe on that.

It's like a call to change and not be passive. That is spread straight through. And I think Maymuller's song really does that justice. You can find out more about Eurovision on our website, standard.co.uk. And that's it from the leader.

This podcast is back on Monday at 4pm.

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