Pat Cullen: Negotiations Need To Happen 'Urgently' | Good Morning Britain

MUSIC Now, the head of the Royal College of Nursing Union is calling for a double-digit pay rise for nurses in England, which raises the stakes in their long-running dispute with the government. Pat Cullen, the general secretary of the RCN, previously told members to accept the government's offer of 5% in March, but it was rejected in a vote by 54 to 46. And Pat Cullen joins us now. Good morning, Pat. The Times reports today nurse leader criticised for pay uterine. It has the government minister Grant Shapp saying, Pat Cullen just recently was encouraging her members to settle for the pay rise that was on the table. It's frankly rather confusing now that she seems to be coming back and saying the opposite.

Now, obviously, it's your job as the RCN leader to represent the views of your members and. .but also to be able to do that credibly in a negotiation. You're clearly now representing their views. You're now calling for a double-digit pay rise. Is it possible for you personally, credibly, to lead those negotiations with the government, given that you're now advocating the opposite of what you were calling for before? Well, look, let's put it in context. Tens of thousands of nurses voted to reject the pay offer that the government put on the table.

And what was the offer? It was 9% over two years consolidated. And our members are saying that 9% is not enough, and we need to add to it and put more money on the table. And that's what we're asking government to do. And the thousands of nurses that I'm in Brighton this week with are telling me and the Royal College of Nursing that the current situation within the health service is untenable, and we need to do something urgently. So I'm asking government now to get back round the table and add to that 9%. I'm sure that that is a very accurate description of what nurses want. They don't think 5% plus £1,655 a year as a settlement now is fair.

They want more. The question I was asking, though, is not whether they want that or whether that's fair or not. I was asking whether you personally, credibly, go into a negotiation, bang at the table and demand more than the settlement that you previously told the government was reasonable and fair and advocated that your members support. I'm just wondering whether it's you who can lead that negotiation now. No, it's 9% consolidated over two years. Our members are saying that will not address the recruitment and retention issues within the NHS. We'll hear many debates over the next week just about the conditions that our nursing staff are working in.

They're harrowing to listen to. They're harrowing for our nurses. It's harrowing for our patients. And we need to address the absolute crisis that we're in within the health service and the crisis that our nursing staff find themselves in. Every one of us throughout our lives will need a nurse. Our nurses, and we'll hear from them this week, many of them living in poverty and having to leave the profession simply because they can no longer afford to stay in it. And we can't continue on with this.

So the 9% that has been given by the government over the two years isn't sufficient to address those real critical issues. And we need to do something urgently. And that's what our thousands of members are urging this government to do. I totally accept it's harrowing and that the members don't think 9% consolidated is fair and they want more. The question I'm asking is that you did think it was fair and reasonable before. I just wonder whether there might not be somebody better to go and do this negotiation who actually believes this is a bad deal rather than you yourself, because quite reasonably, you told your members it was a good deal. Well, I work with our ruling council, our ruling council's elected members.

Many of them frontline nurses. And we've been over this many times to say, at that point in time in those negotiations, we took everything off that table that we could possibly get from the government. Our members spoke loud and clear, one of the highest turnouts in the ballot so far. And they said to us, it's not enough. It won't address, it'll address short-term measures within the health service, but it will not address the long-term challenges that we have got. And I'm listening to them. And they obviously have spoken up very loud, and there are 300,000 of them.

And they want to get back round the table with government and let's reopen negotiations. That's what I'm focused on. That's what I'm focused on with thousands of members that I'll have the privilege of listening to over the next number of days. OK, so originally, you were pushing for a 19% pay rise, as Ed has referred to. You recommended to your members that they accept the government's deal, your members disagreed with you. What are you now asking for when we talk about a double-digit pay rise? And how long have you got before your members go back and are balloted for more strike action? Just let's put the record straight. The Royal College of Nursing never actually said they had put 19% as their pay request.

We were very clear about that for many, many months. We said that we needed a decent pay offer that would absolutely address the recruitment retention issues within the NHS. This pay offer doesn't do that. That's been very clear from our members. Now we need to get back round the table and address those issues. And we need to do it urgently so that our members don't have to be balloted again. On the 23rd of May, that's when the Royal College of Nursing will open that ballot.

And then our members will have their voice again. But we can stop that. We do not need to be going into the winter months on strike action again with our members. We actually should be able to resolve this now, get round the table and do it for nursing and do it for patients. So the government has eight days to prevent another nurses' strike. Well, our ballot will open on the 23rd of May, Suzanne, and it will close then a month later on the 23rd of June, around that time. So there's a period now where I have written again to the Secretary of State to say, please, let's reopen negotiations.

Let's get round the table. Let's sit down and talk about how we will address those really critical issues for nursing staff and for patients. And then let our nursing staff get back to their work. Pat Cullen, thank you very much indeed, leader of the Royal College of Nursing.

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